I agree that Labour’s track record for extending projects is not good. Putting BRT on the corridor is also not good. It should take the coastal route and the corridor at the very least preserved.
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I understand and respect this point of view however if it’s about implementing a solution to connect Birtinya to Maroochydore in time for the games why not fast track the SCMTP which already has established planning for BRT along the coastal route (with interchanges at both Maroochydore and Birtinya). It’s essentially the same as GCLR just with BRT instead of light rail
TMR admit it’s going to be built anyway, I would consider myself relatively mode neutral but I don’t see the point in having two parallel BRT routes from Birtinya to Maroochydore when one of them could be heavy rail.
I don’t for a second believe Labor was going to get it all the way to Maroochydore by 2032 (even the business case points this out) but paving over the rail corridor with a busway when there will already be a metro route running along almost the same alignment seems silly and short sighted to me. That’s just my opinion anyway.
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Let’s reflect on this a bit more.
If rail is required in the corridor, doesn’t that also imply that transport in general is required in that corridor too?
Is the coastal BRT route a full substitute or only a partial one for the incomplete rail section Birtinya-Maroochydore?
The end state is delivery of both rail, and the wave BRT along a coastal route. If the rail section isn’t going to be built, then it suggests two BRT projects should be delivered, rather than just one plus an empty corridor - especially if the wait is likely 20+ years and there is enough demand in the rail corridor to justify service right now.
Thoughts?
You are making a logical leap Metro. A corridor with no BRT hasnt been extended quickly, therefore a corridor with BRT also won’t be extended quickly, sure. But, there’s no data on whether a corridor with BRT will be replaced with heavy rail quicker than a corridor without BRT. Logically speaking, it’s more likely for a corridor with no BRT to be extended first.
We can however make links to the Busways in Brisbane which were intended to be an interim solution for LRT. Has that occured? No. Is that likely to occur anytime soon? No.
Heavy Rail and BRT serve different purposes. BRT makes more sense along the coastal strip where the population exists as it can have smaller stop spacing. Heavy rail makes sense as a trunk route. The other thing to consider is that BRT can go largely anywhere (fully seperated busways to a lesser extent) whereas Heavy Rail requires a corridor.
The argument is essentially we could wait for a bag of marshmellows in 20 years, or we could get 1 marshmellow now.
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True. I am making a leap, but it’s worth reflecting on. If we are fairly certain about a 20 year wait based on prior project delivery, then why is an empty corridor that won’t carry anyone for 20 years preferable to one that will provide services now?
Because there’s alternatives which do a good job serving a long term objective while also in the interim providing the connectivity through to Maroochydore without jeopardising the longer term solution.
No one is saying to do nothing, we only think that the Government should invest in the corridor which will have long term value as a BRT/LRT rather than taking the corridor preserved for Heavy Rail and putting in a lower capacity, lower confort, and crucially lower speed mode.
The intention is to connect Brisbane to Maroochydore, and that only works if it’s fast and convenient. What’s not convenient? Having to lug all your stuff off of the train to transfer to an overcrowded bus, and then having to transfer again in Maroochydore onto your local feeder bus. The residents of the Sunshine Coast deserve better. If we ever expect Maroochydore to become SEQs third major hub, we need better.
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This is what makes more sense.
The current goverment seems determine to send their stupid brainfart of a BRT in the rail corridor just to outpromise labor before 2032. However, TMR has been working on the Sunshine Coast Mass Transit Project, which is BRT, for years. They even have a fancy web site with proposed designs and everything. And said project connects Birtinya to Maroochydore. Sunshine Coast Public Transport - Proposed station locations | Sunshine Coast Public Transport | TMR Projects
So why should anyone settle for spending money in both projects, specially when one of them is a brainfart that if implemented will see the preserved rail corridor occupied by BRT for decades? The State will eventually spend more money if it proceeds with it.
They should built the rail until Birtinya and proceed with the SCMTP and leave the rail corridor for rail.
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Good insight @adrianosm. The Government could event call the SCMTP the Wave too for all I care if they want to save face.
“Hop on the Wave in Brisbane to get to stunning coastal locations like Alexandra Headlands”
What isn’t there to love.
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Noted that ’ Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line Direct Sunshine Coast Rail Line | TMR Projects ’ talks about stage 1 but under stations has them all the way to Maroochydore.
Alexandra Headlands is no way near the DSCL corridor. Thus why the SCMTP (utilising most of the existing bus network) is the more ideal solution rather than replacing DSCL Stage 3 (Birtinya to Maroochydore) with an unnecessary busway that’s largely in a lower “walk-up” area with the only patronage generator en-route being the Mountain Creek Schools and the nearby TAFE.
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Completely agree with this , even with the original DSCL proposal I have absolutely no idea what the purpose of the Mountain Creek station is. It would have a tiny catchment area with a motorway directly to the east, a school to the south/west and a rubbish tip to the North. It would without a doubt be the lowest patronage station of the proposed stops.
What confuses me is why the SCMPT corridor hasn’t been developed. BRT was selected as the preferred mode back in 2021 (again, I don’t think that’s a bad thing) and pretty much nothing has happened since then. I just had a look at the project page on the TMR website and it looks like they’re doing a business case which will be handed down sometime this year… but there’s still zero funding allocated to actually developing the project.
Isn’t the main reason for Mountain Creek station as a bus interchange for Mooloolaba? I think there’s supposed to be a cycleway from there to Mooloolaba, too.
We are mode neutral. If the line from Beerwah to Birtinya was being constructed as BRT, I’m sure people would support extending that BRT to Maroochydore too. The point is about working with what’s already in place rather than adding an unnecessary vehicle change.
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I think it was just lack of priority and funds?
The latest consultation round happened in late 2023. Then nothing (public) happened last year BUT the project page says a business case is expected to be releasedthis year https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/SunshineCoastPublicTransport (Which I hope it is)
I wish this were the case but I doubt it will be. People in Maroochydore would vote for blue team even if they were caught on camera saying how much they hate puppies and kittens. People in the rest of Queensland may not be concerned with public transport projects that don’t directly affect them. I’m not sure enough people in Queensland value public transport to change a government over it.
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Just on these two - obviously we should be mode neutral in that we consider all modes, but we also need to bear in mind that different modes have different strengths, weaknesses, and use cases. BRT is a great option for lower-cost urban transport and absolutely has its uses, but a lot of the advantages (high frequency for relatively cheap, connectivity with existing bus network, short dwell times at stops, able to deal with challenging/tight geometric constraints) aren’t really relevant here.
This is an existing corridor that has the geometry that supports smooth curves, through an area of relatively low density, few proposed stops, and limited utility as a backbone corridor for the wider bus network. That’s exactly the use-case for heavy rail - people largely want to transit through the area, not to it, so the higher top speeds and capacities of rail are crucial here & very high frequencies are less important (compared to urban transit).
Considering a large portion (most?) of the trips will be long journeys this is doubly true, as BRT is typically less comfortable for long trips, lacks amenities like toilets, and in this case will force a mode transfer for people who may have luggage. There’s a demand for transport, but we need to be mindful that it’s not in this area so much as through it
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Mode neutral to me means we are agnostic about technology proposed to be used for a given application, but don’t regard them all as being interchangeable. There is generally going to be a most appropriate option for any given scenario.
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For me, it’s a choice between having a bus on the corridor or an empty corridor with grass (like Varsity Lakes - OOL).
In all future scenarios, the SCMPT/Wave BRT/Wave LRT will have to be delivered along a coastal route, so it’s a question of that plus or minus BRT on this rail corridor as well.
The main pain point though is why we are even in this situation at all. If major transport projects were managed like the WA Government does them, members here would not have to contemplate the question.
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There is a bus from Varsity to OOL though. Running it every 15 minutes or better doesn’t require any money spent on concrete as it runs on surface roads, and nor would it in this case if there was one from Birtinya to Maroochydore. In this case it would be a shorter, more direct trip than the 760 is. Doesn’t need special vehicles either.
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If there were a shuttle service that connects at the end, as you describe, and it was high frequency (say every 10 min) that would be fine.
Larger vehicles would be desirable though, as demand would be significant.