The number should make the operational neeed to have 15min min frequency across network (higher in peak) plus an intercity fleet
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Definitely Jonno. There clearly are not enough trains at present, basically because they cut the NGR order (with the retrospectroscope on probably saved some $$$ more than they expected with less DDA/DSAPT mods to be done in the end) back which has caused the proliferation of 3 car services at peaks, prolonged use of units with graffiti and general lack of cleanliness of the train fleet. I think they are very close to maximum fleet utilisation at the present peaks, not enough trains to give the operational buffer they should have. I really think the order for the QTMP needs to be beefed up, to allow for timetable improvements all over the network.
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I have seen this first hand, I have to commute slightly past Roma Street a few days a week and generally caught the NABR express and then transferred to a CAIP service which gives me a few mins to stretch the legs, but at some point in the lead up to Easter the morning CAIP service was dropped from 6 to 3 cars and has been like that daily since. Even the staff at Roma Street are starting to get fed up with it.
It got so overcrowded that I decided not to bother anymore, I just changed my commute to now catch a NAIP service instead.
If the QTMPs end up being quality units I would 100% support an increased order, perhaps they could even adjust the interior for an interurban version with luggage racks, bike spaces and more ergonomic seating? 
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Definitely!
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If the QTMP facility is at max capacity then the intercity/regional fleet can be procured overseasâŚto the same standard and not repeating the mistake of the past
Since all other previous train models have a ton of yellow (doors and front of train), I would prefer to keep the yellow for consistency among other models. Furthermore, the yellow doors do stand out among the rest of the train livery; visually impaired passengers can identify bright yellow doors.
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I agree, I think itâs best to keep the family resemblance intact between the different rollingstock, it helps create the appearance of a unified rail network operator. Vastly different looking rollingstock could potentially confuse people.
If you really wanted to change the livery to remove the yellow, the proper way to do it would be to do it across the entire fleet to maintain consistency, and advertise the change to the public to make them away of it to lessen confusion during the changeover period.
I am a little surprised. I was honestly expecting alternating carriages with a higher seating capacity (2x2 layout). With regards to the 2x1 layout, do we think they would provide more seating over the longitudinal layouts seen across current models?
Iâm sure weâve been told about the 2x1 layout previously - I canât recall when exactly but it was no surprise to me.
I am a little curious to understand, why not just have longitudinal seating across the side like Perth?
Downer did release a video render of the train way back when, which did show the seat layout. That said, the video did only show the first carriage.
I think youâre absolutely right. If the order is too small it will take a decade to make up with the slow pace we order rolling stock in Aus.
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Found this photo on Linkedin showcasing the origin place for parts of the QTMP fleet. As we already know ABB is making the Traction System, Knorr-Bremse for climate control, ST Engineering for PIDs, I wonder what company will be making the seats, pantographs etc?
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I wouldnât be surprised if Fainsa of Spain comes back with their seats, as those are used on the NGRs.
Based off a brief delivery video that Downer released on their LinkedIn a few days ago I have been able to track down the mock up QTMP train, itâs sitting in an industrial unit at 405 Newman Rd, Geebung which QIC have a 50% stake in.
Interestingly there is signage around the mock up asking people to not share any photos of the unit on social media, every bit of media around it appears to be very carefully managed and likely requires QR/QTMP project team approval to share online.
I wonder why theyâre being so secretive? Playing it safe after the huge disability issues with the NGR sets? Or perhaps the design isnât finalised yet and they donât want unapproved photos out on the internet?
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Thanks for the update. They tried a similar strategy for a while with the Not Going Right trains. But all was revealed. The QTMP trains should be rolled gold âŚ
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I think they know the decision of using 2-1 seating will create a considerable media backlash.
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They caved into disability advocacy groups as these groups wanted to traverse the whole length of the train using a mobility device.
If you look at other jurisdictions around the place like Sydney which also has a similar DDA, boarding where there are accessible toilets is the main objective, rather than being able to traverse the whole train.
Although they may get around the seating issue by running 9 car sets on longer runs such as sector 1 from day 1, and higher frequency on shorter runs on other sectors.
I feel like there has to be a pragmatic answer to this though. These are intercity 6 car trains, surely just having the middle 2 cars with the extra wide walkways would be more equitable.
The removal of seats beyond necessary for equitable access makes it more likely that people that may struggle with standing for long periods or have balance issues to struggle with finding a seat, as theyâre not always provided for in the priority seating requirements.
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I donât know if I would use the terminology of âcavingâ into disability groups - they have legitimate requirements to do with public infrastructure than must be accommodated. On top of that, we donât know if the three abreast seating was based directly on their requirements or requests, or whether it relates to DTMR bureaucrats pushing PWD compliance beyond what I would consider to be adequate.
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Itâs also worth considering that 2-1 seating reduces seated capacity, but increases total capacity due to add standing room. Since TMR/QR seem to have decided that having separate SMU and IMU classes is a thing of the past, these trains also need to be designed for high-capacity peak hour inner-city services. Iâd venture this probably influenced the decision just as much as accessibility reasons