Hey everyone - it’s no secret that there’s so many things that need doing to improve the transport system, and costs are also increasing drastically. It’s also no secret that many parts of the transport system are either under utilised or are too complex and inefficient. So, this thread is to share ideas for ways to improve the system with simple changes. It could be timetable changes, utilising existing infrastructure more effectively, or small infrastructure projects.
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Here are some thoughts for the rail system:
IMMEDIATE (or almost immediate):
15 minute frequency 7 days per week to Manly, Coopers Plains, Springfield Central, Ferny Grove, Redcliffe, Shorncliffe and Airport. (I’d love to know if 15 minutes all day to Ipswich/Caboolture is also possible with current infrastructure). With this change Ipswich/Rosewood services would be all day express.
SHORT TERM:
Duplication of Sandgate - Shorncliffe.
Duplication of selected portions of Doomben line to allow 15 minute frequencies.
Upgrade of platforms 2/3 of South Bank station.
Closure of several under-utilised stations (Wynnum, Bindha, Gailes and Holmview).
These changes alone would make a much larger portion of the network high frequency, which I have no doubt would increase patronage levels significantly.
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Good short-medium term list.
Certain folks have previously suggested that we can’t have much movement on train frequency until CRR is open and the QTMPs are rolled out. If that’s the case it’s a bummer. There’s also a bunch of bus routes which can be brought up to scratch.
I have some analysis in progress (in particular, I only have population rather than jobs data at present), but I think we should generally be taking the quantitative approach of:
“This much of SEQ, mostly inner-middle city, already has access to all-day-frequent PT. Upgrading services here here and here, brings another X% of residents into the well-served zone.”
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Yes, I have some other thoughts I’ll share as I have time too.
I’ve heard that argument about frequencies too. My questions regarding this is, why is the 15 minute all day frequencies not possible now? Many more trains sit idle in the off peak times. I realise that there could be a need to train new drivers and that takes a bit of time, but surely if the political willpower was there it would be in the realm of possibility.
I’m also not by any means an expert when it comes to the inner workings of the rail system, so if someone can help me understand why it’s not possible I’m all ears.
Bus lanes on Main Roads is a MUST. Cheap to implement and technology on buses can enforce. It is clear the congestion is killing the speed of buses.
I also think a bus stop rationalisation especially where bus stops are less than 250m apart gain especially along the major roads.
Plus bike Infrastructure to and at bus/rail stations.
PS. Don’t think as a group we should be proposing the shutting of station. The whole public transport network is under-utilised. It should be carrying so many more poeple if planning and service provision is done correctly.
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This is such a fantastic thread, thank you for starting the conversation!
This is exactly the discussion that needs to happen for our BTQ annual policy platform.
My own contribution is this - the PTUA have run a “10 minutes to everywhere” campaign over a number of years. We could do something similar under a brand like “15 minutes to everywhere”.
The beauty of this is that it is both mode neutral (bus, train, ferry etc) and region neutral (can apply across all of SEQ).
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Because everyone wants progress but nobody wants change. It is also very easy to blame inanimate or abstract things like low density, car culture, even ‘not enough infrastructure yet’ and use these as blockers or delay excuses.
The bottom line is Perth runs more train services annually than we do here in SEQ. They have 15 minute trains to virtually all train stations on a Sunday, something that we don’t have on a weekday.
Have you perhaps considered being a facilitator for the upcoming policy platform event later this year? 
I think those are great suggestions.
I do agree in principal about what you have said about not closing stations. My rationale for the closing of those specific stations are as follows:
Wynnum - very close to both Wynnum Central and Wynnum North stations (only about 600m). Patronage is fairly low, and the closure of the station will save 2 minutes travel time, which when the line is already so slow and indirect for those coming from the Redlands area I believe will be a welcome change, and those who would go to Wynnum would easily be able to access either Wynnum Central or Wynnum North.
Bindha - smack bang in the middle of an industrial with next to no houses within walk up area. Those that are even slightly in the region would just use Northgate instead, and why wouldn’t you - frequent express and all stop services vs Bindha with 30 minute frequencies. From a patronage perspective this station averages about 30 people per day, which is nothing. If the area was to be converted to medium-high density TOD then I’d be happy to keep it.
Holmview - similar patronage levels to Bindha (approx 30 people per day). Those in the area would be much more likely to use Beenleigh, and when the LGCFR project is complete, Beenleigh station will actually be moved 400m closer to Holmview anyhow. I don’t think the cost of rebuilding a fancy new station is worth it for that level of patronage. I think the station could be closed and cost savings either used for something else or redirected towards another aspect of the project like actual speed increases.
Gailes - fairly low patronage, and next to no walk up catchment. Located next to an industrial complex and a golf course, and this is likely to not change. The main patronage they would get would be people driving to the station to commute to the city, and this could be served through either Goodna or Wacol stations and/or improving local feeder bus services to these stations.
But, having said that, my general philosophy would be to not close stations otherwise.
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Yes, Perth can do it, and I believe that at least a fair portion of the SEQ network can handle it, although I know that there needs to be some capacity upgrades too.
I didn’t know you needed facilitators so I haven’t considered it as of yet. My main challenges to that would be time (Dad to 3 kids, working full time etc), and the fact that I actually live in New Zealand. Brisbane is my hometown and I still keep up with stuff there as much as possible. But I’ve lived here for a while now. You think public transport is bad in SEQ - NZ is a whole other level…
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It can help to couple changes, for example, some stations were removed in the past because platforms needed lengthening or straightening which created a station consolidation opportunity. The same could be said for projects that straighten tracks or ease curves.
In other cases, a station could be activated by rezoning and redevelopment (e.g. Bindha).
If we can run fifteen minute headways all day to Coopers Plains, Cannon Hill, and Ferny Grove Monday to Friday there must be enough trains to also do it on the weekend.
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Rollingstock I doubt is the issue - just cost.
The last LNP government, to their credit, rolled out the weekday frequency increases. We should work on them about rolling this out further.
There are a few measures which should happen at minimum and should not be that taxing for the network to sustain as long as the State will pay for it - these would involve little to no infrastructure spend beyond any impact on greater utilisation of the fleet. Harder issues to solve (eg pushing 15 minute headways outbound of Manly, Kuraby, Darra (to Ipswich) and Petrie (to Caboolture / Caloundra) etc) need a lot of capital works and a lot more trains.
A. Extend 15 minute frequency coverage on weekdays progressively as follows:
- Cannon Hill to Manly.
- Coopers Plains to Kuraby.
- Darra to Springfield (combine with measure C below).
- Northgate to Kippa-Ring.
- Northgate to Shorncliffe.
- Airtrain (by filling in the missing gaps in the existing 15 minute headways and having trains alternate between terminating at Roma Street and continuing to the Gold Coast)
B. Progressively roll out measure A to operate 7 days a week.
C. Ipswich line peak hour express pattern becomes permanent in both directions.
D. Eliminate other gaps in service that shouldn’t exist
- The hourly service to and from Ipswich early on weekends.
- Early finishing Airtrain and Doomben services.
- Lack of Sunday services for Doomben.
- More Nambour services.
- More Gympie services.
E. Gradually eliminate to the furthest extent possible variations in what route trains take in continuing past the CBD so that all (or virtually all) destination pairs remain the same all day long, except for peak flow services to / from the CBD only, and to properly sectorise the system.
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I actually think Holmview could be a worthwhile station to retain, but not where it is now and not where LGCFR intends to move it.
For many people living in the new areas of Holmview and Waterford - those south of Logan River Road, geographically speaking the closest station to them is really Edens Landing, but because Edens Landing has the most stupid suburb design known to mankind (there’s not a straight road in that bloody suburb), getting to that station means driving/busing along the stupidly long, stupidly winding Castile Crescent - this is why the Route 567 that services the new areas of Holmview ignores it completely in favour of Beenleigh Station.
However, if they were to move Holmview Station up to the location of the Holmview Road Footbridge (between the footbridge and the to-be-closed rail crossing), that puts the station on a nice, straight stretch of track that is accessible from Holmview Station - which is a largely dead straight piece of road running directly off Logan River Road, fairly close to the intersections of Teys Road & Hamburg Road, and likely still quicker to get to than Gardiner Road than Edens Landing Station. With good bus access and a park n ride, I think this would make a good, local station for these new developments.
I have concerns about the amount of people from these new development areas all piling into Beenleigh Station, especially if they are driving themselves in there to do so. If not for Edens Landing’s winding roads and lack of direct access, I would even advocate closing that station in favour of my proposed Holmview.
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Good stuff. That’s good to know that 15 minute services could be run to Kuraby now.
So regarding Caboolture and Ipswich lines, is the barrier to running 15 minute services because of the freight services?
I suspect (anecdotally) the hardest to implement might be extending Cannon Hill terminators to Manly given reliability issues with terminating there and getting trains out of the way. There should be enough track capacity to do the rest. Maybe a short duplication to Lota and constructing a turnback just beyond it would solve the issue.
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I believe duplication to Lota and a third platform there is part of QR’s future plans. A third platform at Manly is difficult, due to lack of space.
The Northgate to Boggo Rd/Roma Street infill services should definitely be extended either end to provide 15m frequency between Shorncliffe and Cannon Hill. They are already extended to Cannon Hill on weekdays, but it should also be for weekends.
I’d also like to see 15 minute frequency for the stations between Northgate and Petrie and between Roma Street and Darra (to allow Ipswich trains to run an express pattern all the time).
I can’t see why these increases in Frequency wouldn’t be possible (other than perhaps taking up too many freight paths?).
Other small ticket items include 30 minute Doomben frequency all day, 7 days a week and increased span of hrs for Airport services. I understand 30 minute Doomben frequency may present issues if a grain train needs to reach the port though? How costly would it be to electrify the points at Doomben to allow P2 to be used when a grain train needs to get past? At the very least, hourly services on Saturday and Sunday should be achievable.
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So is the issue with Ipswich and Caboolture going to 15 min also because of the freight paths?
There’s already hourly services on Saturdays. The span is pretty poor, though, roughly 8 am - 8 pm. I would like to see this extended to at least 6 am - 10 pm, and also extend weekdays to 5 am - 10 pm. Sundays could possibly be a bit less, maybe 7 am - 9 pm. It would certainly be better than whatever’s in place on Sundays now (301 bus, running every 90 minutes for Doomben/Ascot, hourly (roughly) 306/322 for Clayfield). Probably Hendra is best-served with a half-hourly 300.
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