I travelled to Cleveland yesterday for a luncheon. Nice trip but I was reminded that one of the simple fixes to improve reliability would be to duplicate the line in from Cleveland to Birkdale. or perhaps Wellington Point. There are some road over rail bridges that already have provision for the duplicated line.
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Completely agree. Should have been duplicated many moons ago.
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Preach!
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RTI 955/2020: A copy of the Park Road to Cleveland Rail Upgrade Planning Project (PDF, 65.43 MB), Stage 1 Duplication – Technical Assessment Report (July 2017).
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I realise this is a few years old, but looks like they already have a good base with which to work with should the political willpower be there…
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The SEQ Rail Connect did mention that they will invest $1.7million in planning for upgrading the reliability of the Cleveland line. The plan didn’t mention about a duplication, but since there already is a TMR assessment report about the duplication from 2017, I’m sure they will consider duplicating the line up to Cleveland (fingers crossed if they actually conclude to duplicate).
I remember some discussion over at RBoT that reliable four trains per hour in both directions operations could be achieved with duplication just from Thorneside to Wellington Point, leaving two relatively short single track sections between Manly and Thorneside and between Wellington Point and Cleveland.
Duplicating between Cleveland and Wellington Point would leave a much longer single track section between Manly and Wellington Point.
Maybe someone with more timetabling expertise could suggest which would be more beneficial.
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Assuming the timetable hasn’t substantively changed since 2022:
Trains cross at Wellington Point. They also cross north of Manly (inbound goes through 2 minutes before outbound) and an inbound train departs Cleveland 3-4 minutes after an outbound train arrives (not sure if long dwell or very tight turnaround there).
So the first thing for reliability will be to extend some of those duplicated sections. The tightest cross is Wellington Point and you’d probably go (back) to Birkdale first (or right back to Thorneside), because the outbound train presumably has more opportunities to be delayed than the inbound train.
Conversely, if it is a tight turnaround at Cleveland and it’s not being made, then to extend the dwell time trains might need to cross at Ormiston rather than WP, so duplicate there first to enable it and then Manly-Lota for reliability, as now an exact cross will be at Manly.
edit to add:
Technically the cross is slightly outbound of WP and if you look at Google Maps you’ll see the passing loop is on the outbound side of WP also - actually right now the satellite imagery shows it in action!
So if the outbound train is delayed by only 1 minute then the inbound is not too badly impacted. However, more duplication = more reliability.
If we bump this up to 15 minute frequency each way then we get a second cross at Thorneside pretty much exactly. There’s already two tracks there so this is plausibly doable today? I suppose it’s not too different to Keperra, before the duplication of outer FG.
edit 2: with the existing timetable offset such that the inbound train runs 1 minute later, we can keep the Manly cross to still be just north of Manly. The WP loop will need to extend about 1km further outbound (to the Hilliards Ck bridge) and the Thorneside loop similarly (duplication of the high-level bridge over Thorneside Rd and continuing to about Clive Rd). I suppose if it could run 30s later that would be more convenient, but either way that gets us the wiggle room needed at Thorneside.
Duplication aside, I reckon the Cleveland line has a few stations in places that are not ideal, and would benefit from some relocations or rationalisations.
For example, it’s a little absurd that there are three stations in Wynnum with gaps of around 700-800m. Plus Wynnum North appears to have its platforms on a curve, which I remember reading somewhere isn’t ideal due to creating a bigger gap with train doors. If I could wave a magic wand and change the stations, I’d merge Wynnum and Wynnum North into one station between the two, perhaps around Stanley Terrace and Stradbroke Avenue. Elevating this section could bring a new elevated station while also eliminating the Wynnum Rd and Wynnum North Rd level crossings.
I also think Cannon Hill and Murrarie stations are in the wrong places. It’d be better if the stations were located as close to the commercial centres as possible, i.e. Creek Rd near Cannon Hill Plaza and Wynnum Rd near the Colmslie Woolworths. Can’t see that idea being popular with the residents of Murrarie, but Creek Rd is hardly a big trek.
It’d be nice if the whole line were reviewed alongside any decision to duplicate Manly to Cleveland.
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You and I think alike! I was going to suggest the same thing regarding Murarrie and Cannon Hill stations, but ran out of time this week…
An advantage of relocating Murarrie to Creek Road would allow closer connection to the Cannon Hill shopping area, and also good bus connectivity with services that could run down Creek Road to Carindale and Mount Gravatt, and up Creek Road to Skygate and Hamilton Northshore. That would make such a difference for people on the east to be able to travel those directions without going into the inner city.
I also think an improvement to the alignment where that sharp curve is just past Murarrie and under the Gateway Motorway to make it a bit straighter and allow faster running speeds between Hemmant and Murarrie would be beneficial too.
Regarding the Wynnum stations, as someone who spent my childhood in Wynnum, I’ve thought for a long time that Wynnum station should be closed. Wynnum North could be straightened by having a portion of the platform built on the straight portion of track in the same way Morningside has. Elevating at the bare minimum Wynnum Central would do wonders for that area and help rejuvinate the Wynnum CBD. Ideally elevating to past Pine Street would create a safe and adequate underpass for that road. It used to be pretty common for trucks and buses to run into that bridge and it’s also super narrow. Also Berrima Street running under the line is so low regular cars barely fit. That would make a real difference too.
Although just looking on Google Maps, where I used to play tennis on Preston Road isn’t there anymore. That’s a bit sad! Side note I know… 
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my idea is for a sky rail like in melbourne for the Wynnum aera, With Lindum relocated slightly east, With Wynnum North and the annoyingly named Wynnum, merged into a single station, around where Wynnum road is.
The line at Wynnum Road is on a curve, so might be a challenge to move the station there though.
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I think something else that can definitely be improved with the Cleveland line in the short term is better connections with busses (I’m not sure on busses past Lota and how effective the connections are to the local busses, so I will not include them here):
Murarrie station: IMO, the 220 could use with a diversion via Murarrie Rd to Murarrie station, since the Cleveland line is faster from the city to Murarrie, and the diversion would only cost about 2-4 mins per route. This could also apply to the 215, however it would mean diverting away from people along Wynnum road (this doesn’t apply to the 220 as it is an express service anyway). The 590 could also service here instead of bypassing: this would cost approximately 3-5 mins per route. The 210 could also start from here, which would cost approximately 5 mins per route (though I think a turnaround for the bus would need to be built).
Wynnum North: the 220/225 could stop here
Manly: the 220 and the 227 could stop here (turnarounds would need to be built/upgraded to allow for right turns), and the 240 should have a station near New Road, as the current bus stations make transferring to the train a bit tight
I’d prefer Cannon Hill station moved back towards Creek Road rather than Murrarie, otherwise both stations are way too close to each other. In fact, looking at it, you could probably make an argument that you could relocate Cannon Hill station back towards Creek Road, and close Murrarie station completely, given Creek Road is a much more central location for both Murrarie residents and Cannon Hill residents, while also working with the bus network and near the shopping centre. If you kept Murrarie I’d move it west of the current position on the straighter track right after the level crossing.
Regarding Wynnum station, yeah, close it, Wynnum North and Wynnum Central are both within walking distance of Wynnum.
If both Wynnum or Murrarie were closed, you could then look at removing those level crossings while they were at it.
As I said in other thread, I wouldn’t hold my breath for a duplication or part duplication of the Cleveland line, until post Olympics minimum, I’ve been fighting for that duplication since the early 2000s, as I mentioned in another thread, I even did a petition for it back in 2002, with zero effect (people even didn’t take me seriously about at the time as I apparently looked like a kid - I was 19 that year).
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Agreed. Cannon Hill moved to Creek Road, a new station constructed at Colmslie and Murarrie closed.
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If you want a station at Creek Rd, there will be a need to improve pedestrian and cycling amenities along Creek Rd. They’re not great right now.
You could move Cannon Hill back towards Morningside, putting the station closer to Wynnum Rd and then relocate Murarrie to adjacent Creek Rd. This might also allow for the removal of the Murarrie level crossing.
I wonder if Cannon Hill and Morningside would then be too close together? They’re only about 2 km apart as it is.
I wouldn’t call that too close. I think anywhere from 1-3km can be suitable depending on what exists between. Morningside and Colmslie (Cannon Hill shifted west) would be about 1-1.2km apart, which is on the shorter end of the spectrum, but they each are serving a retail centre so I think it’s justified.