I read that long segments of triple-track rail corridors (e.g. Northgate-Petrie, Boggo Road-Kuraby) are major bottlenecks where off/counter-peak express services cannot overtake all stop services (e.g. off/counter-peak Caboolture services cannot overtake Redcliffe Peninsula services between Northgate and Petrie).
In this case, what would happen if the express services made additional stops on the three track corridors off/counter-peak? For example, the Caboolutre/Sunshine Coast trains will have additional off/counter-peak stops at Zillmere and Carseldine, and the Gold Coast train will have another off/counter-peak stop at Yeerongpilly. This may allow for additional space between the express and all-stop services, possibly improving capacity and frequency.
What impacts will additional off/counter-peak stops will it have on the rail network? Will it provide much capacity increase during off/counter peak, allowing for greater frequencies in the off/counter-peak?
From what I understand 15 minute off peak/contra peak services to Kippa Ring can be supported with current infrastructure and stopping patterns, so that shouldn’t be an issue. Having said that, I don’t see the harm with Caboolture services making a stop at Carseldine if that was to become a major interchange for bus servieces too.
The Beenleigh/Gold Coast line, however, is a different story. Such a stupid decision to not tunnel to Yeerongpilly. I think an interim solution would be to create some sort of passing loop setup at certain stations. I think there would be enough space at Yeerongpilly for this. The Logan Gold Coast Faster Rail project will help, but once again an ideal solution would be to extend that to the Banoon area with 4 tracks going from Kuraby, removing the level crossings in the Runcorn area, and running a tunnel underground with a station around Pinelands to straighten that section of track. But knowing the current track record of things that’s unlikely to happen.
If the Coopers Plains train can run at 15min frequencies all day on the thee-track corridor from Boggo Road, I’m sure that the Beenleigh train can run at 15min frequencies all day once the LGCFR is completed. So I feel like the frequency of the Beenleigh services can increase to 15min frequencies seamlessly.
With the Gold Coast line, I feel like the frequencies can be improved without any construction works. This may seem ludicrous, but I feel like the Gold Coast train can go as far as to stop all stations from Yeerongpilly to Boggo Road. With the GC train stopping all stations, that will reduce the risk of interference from the Beenleigh trains, possibly allowing for 15min frequencies on the Gold Coast. As an added bonus, people living between Yeerongpilly and Boggo Road will be served by a train on average every 7.5min all day, making those suburbs served by turn-up-and-go services.
Furthermore, there are only four additional stations that the Gold Coast train would stop at, meaning the journey time for the Gold Coast train will not be significantly increased to allow for doubled frequencies (quadrupled from Yeerongpilly to Boggo Road).
GC passengers would absolutely murder you if you try to add more stops.
People are already whinging about having to add three stops on the coast that will definitely add up to the total journey time, so adding four more would be excessive.
I know it won’t be desirable for many GC commuters to have four additional inner-city stops in the off/counter-peak direction, but I guess that shows how short-sighted it was to curtail CRR to Dutton Park from Yeerongpilly. Otherwise, there won’t be such significant increase in frequency due to the three-track segment from Boggo Road to Kuraby.
Thanks to CRR ending at Dutton Park, I guess that’s pretty much a major dilemma for GC services in terms of frequency and journey time:
No significant increase in frequency: Journey times will not increase.
Additional stops adding to journey time: Possibly major increase in frequency.
If CRR was constructed to Yeerongpilly, GC services could have a major increase in frequency without having to make any additional inner-city stops. But now that’s not the case.
Apologies for the absurd idea for GC services stopping all stations from Boggo Road to Yeerongpilly.
You’re spot on with the real problem - CRR surfacing at Dutton Park was a huge mistake that significantly limits the usefulness of the whole project. Ultimately we’re going to need to solve that if we want to improve Beenleigh/GC services.
I agree that there’s no reason to apologise, if we all expected apologies for every idea someone disagreed with half the messages here would just be the word sorry
The off-peak frequencies for the Beenleigh line have not been much of an issue; they can run every 15min all day once LGCFR is completed (maybe 7.5min in peak-direction). Gold Coast trains will be a bit tricky to work with in terms of increasing off/counter-peak service frequency without headbutting into off/counter-peak Beenleigh services.
ETCS can be considered in terms of increasing frequency for Beenleigh/Gold Coast line. I heard that ETCS will provide the trains live updates about the preceding train. I guess this means that Gold Coast trains will know almost exactly how far ahead the Beenleigh train ahead is, and can continue running express until it gets too close to the Beenleigh train.
Therefore, the Gold Coast trains may be able to run 15min all day without much additional stops after ETCS and LGCFR. I still feel that the Gold Coast train would need to make one extra off/counter-peak stop (possibly Yeerongpilly due to its future increase in density) to clear some space between the Gold Coast train the Beenleigh train ahead for more reliable 15min frequency service.
Similarly, the Caboolture/Sunshine Coast express services would be able to run 15min all day with ETCS, and also with an additional off/counter-peak stop at Carseldine (due to bus connections and high station patronage) to clear space between the preceding Redcliffe train.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we do get all counter-peak trains needing to run all stations from Yeerongpilly to Boggo Road. Track capacity issues may even dictate AM peak hour trains coming from Exhibition terminate at Yeerongpilly, and that they start from Yeerongpilly in the PM peak (a la Bowen Hills). Not sure how else they plan on dealing with it.
Judging that they currently terminate peak services at stations with close proximity to stabling yards for SC/Redcliffe and Ipswich/Springfield (Roma St and Bowen Hills), then Queensland Rail may add Yeerongpilly and Ekka stations as termini stations for peak-hour SC/Redcliffe and GC/Beenleigh services.
But considering that peak services will be turn-up-and-go of 7.5min post CRR and LGCFR (they already do this for the SC/Redcliffe and Ipswich/Springfield lines), I guess that’s probably a win.
Most importantly, we may have manageable 15min frequencies off/counter-peak for SC/Redcliffe and GC/Beenleigh services.
I’ve always thought that if they do add a stop to the express SC/Cabo services it should be Carseldine. It connects to most of Brisbane’s northside bus network as well as Westfield Chermside.
I still think quadruplication to Petrie should be on the Government’s mind, even with ETCS it will be hard to manage express peak services and maintain reasonable contra peak frequency as well, especially once DSCL opens.
With off/counter-peak SC/Caboolture trains stopping at Carseldine, I guess the trains could wait a bit longer at Carseldine to clear more space between it and the Redcliffe train ahead. It’s kind of similar to how citybound Shorncliffe trains stop at Northgate for a longer time compared to other stations (possibly to clear space between it and the Airport train?).
Furthermore, there would only be eight stations the train expresses past (Lawnton-Bald Hills & Zillmere-Virginia). Perhaps SC/Cabo trains can stop at Zillmere since it also has good connections with the 330 BUZ. And this will also clear more space between the SC/Cabo train and the Redcliffe train.
The best infra upgrades that I can think of is adding a few long passing loops at some sections of track if space allows (the only spaces where I think this is possible is between Carseldine and Bald Hills). Furthermore, There aren’t really much places where a fourth track can be added from Petrie to Northgate without having to reconstruct a lot of stations and surrounding areas.
To fully separate the SC/Cabo from the Redcliffe trains, I guess the best bet is to route the SC/Cabo train through NWTC to Alderley from Strathpine, so Redcliffe trains have the entire 3-track for itself and the NWTC is built as a quad-track, allowing express trains to overtake all-stop trains in both directions. That is if NWTC railway ever gets built.
I understand the 330 BUZ connection, but I don’t think it’s worth stopping the Caboolture/SC services at both Carseldine and Zillmere. This would slow down the service too much.
Personally I think Carseldine would be enough to stop at on its own, and the 330 - well that’s opening a whole can of worms, but I think that should fit into a whole reform of bus services. I believe that service should run to Chermside and terminate there. When there are perfectly adequate rail services that are being duplicated by this service running all the way into the city, and services that run regularly from Chermside, there is no need to continue this service all the way into the city. If Redcliffe services are every 15 minutes (which they should be), this would be an adequate interchange point for people travelling to the CBD, and also, if they prefer, Chermside as well.
But like I said, that’s a whole other can of worms…
Agreed. From Landsborough Interchange (where most people board SC Line) to Central is already 15 stops which is pretty crazy for an express service. Bowen Hills, Valley and Central will be replaced by Exhibition when CRR opens but it’s still way too many stops IMO.
Once DSCL is built I hope they really look at ways to improve Caboolture/SC stopping pattern. The Gympie North train despite having a fair bit of buffer built into the timetable (and some lost time at Beerburrum waiting for a signal) already saves 5 minutes by skipping the Petrie to Caboolture stations, and there’s probably more efficiencies that can be unlocked in there.
There are major complications with maintaining a reasonable service frequency when you have both inbound and outbound Caboolture/Sunshine Coast trains sharing just 2 tracks, so perhaps Cabo/SC will need to become one line? Or do a Cleveland Line style setup where most trains will terminate at Birtinya but in peak some will terminate at Petrie and some at Caboolture, who knows. I wouldn’t even be mad if they eliminated Northgate and replaced it with Carseldine as a stop, although my experience on a delayed inbound peak service that ran express through northgate was that any train which doesn’t stop there basically has to pass through at walking speed so probably no time saved.
I wonder if it would make a difference for SC services to run express Beerwah to Caboolture and for shuttles that run from Beerwah to Nambour/Gympie North in the future to actually run through to Caboolture to service those stations in the middle. Elimbah and Beerburrum have little development around them at this stage anyhow, and that would still give them a service while speeding up the Sunshine Coast part of the run. This would then allow stations between Petrie and Caboolture to be serviced and would offset the time penalty of stopping at those stations for people coming from further north.
Since the B2N rail corridor will be built as a double-track corridor, I don’t think there will be much space for express Maroochydore trains to overtake all-stop Nambour/Gympie trains. So I guess express DSCRL trains will be obstructed by all-stop Nambour/Gympie trains. That is unless DSCRL trains overtake Nambour/Gympie trains at Caboolture (northbound) or Beerwah (southbound) to ensure maximum distance between DSCRL trains and the Nambour/Gympie train ahead of it, while the overtaken train can cruise along without having an express train on its tail.
That assumes there even are through services from north of Beerwah in future. It’s probably far more efficient to run Nambour to Beerwah as a shuttle outside peak, and extend a number of those services so they run further north (to Cooroy, and a few further on to Gympie North). In peak, you might have services to/from north of Beerwah slotted in between DSCL services and using the same stopping pattern between Brisbane and Beerwah. (I suspect a lot of the demand for stations north of Beerwah will evaporate once the DSCL is running.)
Why would you cut the 330, when the 340 carries a lot less passengers, and takes twice as long from the railway station to Chermside Interchange (18 min vs 9 minutes offpeak)?
We still need a bus from Chermside to the CBD, as it follows a completley different corridor to the train.
Yes, there’s far too much air being carried currently, but that could be easily fixed by termiating the 340 at Chermside, and dropping the 333 after ~9pm.
Well to be honest I’m not super familiar with the Northside bus routes or patronage levels of all of them. I was just looking at that specific route when someone else suggested stopping Caboolture/SC services at Zillmere to connect with this service.
Having said that, I personally don’t believe any buses to the north and east of the Caboolture line should run through to the city. Since there’s an adequate rail line with a lot of potential to be better utilised I still think the route should terminate at Chermside.
This would, however, be in conjunction with 15 minute services to Redcliffe, “Metro” services being established to Chermside and reform of the bus network as a whole for better cross town connectivity. That would allow Zillmere and Chermside to be interchange points for passengers to connect to the city, and would make better use of the rail network which is very under-utilised.