We would run trains ideally full length
Why would you run all trains to Flagstone, when the population density and potential ridership is so much lower?
Not every Ipswich train goes to Rosewood. I could easily see Browns Plains (or maybe Boronia Heights/Regents Park) being the suburban terminus, and either have a shuttle or every second train extending to Flagstone. The population density drops off considerably south of Park Ridge Rd.
Greenbank and Flagstone are building out quite rapidly - by the time this thing is built, I suspect you’d have population levels similar to what was at Springfield when the line opened there.
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Firstly it will grow. Secondly, having half the trains go half the way defeats the purpose of a turn up and go service. Thirdly MREX would intially only go to Browns plains with flagstone being a later stage
Not sure if this could be feasible, but NSW Trainlink are about to have a few surplus Endeavour sets with the introduction of the new regional D sets. Would it be worthwhile, as an interim service, for DTMR/QR to acquire a few to run between Flagstone and Salisbury?
Obviously, a few platforms would need to be built, but minimal new track (maybe passing loops at platforms).
I realise this isn’t an ideal outcome, but it would be a relatively quick/cheap way to get some service on the line.
Btw I have no idea about the lifespan of Endeavours, nor their accessibility. I hope others might.
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Virtually identical to the Xplorer sets (which I’ve been on heaps of times) except for interior layout. Also been on the ‘Bathurst Bullet’ from Lithgow down to Sydney.
Arranged as 2 car sets in a 3-2 seating layout with accessible features but lack modern amenities.
Main issue is they’re about 30 years old and probably close to end of life.
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Endeavour trains are accessible ( Endeavour trains | transportnsw.info ). The cost of doing up stations would make it unlikely. Need to consider maintenance and stabling. Not sure if there is really enough service life left to be an option.
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Or you can build MREX.
Basically this concept automated line I envision that runs from Yarrabilba to Northshore Hamilton using parts of the Salisbury-Beaudesert corridor and merging it with the long proposed Subway along the river.
I’ve never thought of that as an idea before but I like it! It also solves the bottleneck from Salisbury to Boggo Road.
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The Yamanto proposal above is essentially is the long term plan for the Springfield line. Current plans for rail to flagstone and beyond are to branch from Salisbury instead, but also largely similar to what you have here
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Yes but then we have issue with merging at Salisbury. Also I don’t think the Springfield line should go all the way to Ipswich
Sure you no longer have the merging issue at Salisbury but you’ve replaced it with the equally big issue of having to route the Ipswich, Springfield, and this proposed Flagstone line through just one track pair in the city. Routing the Flagstone/Beaudesert line through Salisbury and Boggo Road, assuming the triple track issue can be overcome, would allow interlining with Cleveland trains and more efficient use of the suburban track pair
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Well the idea is we will split the pairs so that Yamanto/Flagstone go all stops whilst Ipswich goes Express. The main issue is where will they pair with beyond Bowen Hills because they can’t just converge sectors. Perhaps take extra Ferny grove trains
I think it’s absolutely critical the Springfield line gets to Yamanto. I don’t have strong feelings about looping it back into Ipswich.
The Western lines are already pretty close to hitting capacity limits in peak. The Inner City Rail Capacity Study (which is where CRR began) said that we’d need a second cross city tunnel a decade after CRR, for exactly this reason. This would create some capacity for Flagstone via Richlands.
In the third-party Minerva Plan (and on here) this new tunnel is called the “Clevewich” line, on the idea that you’ve run through the city from the West, so you pop up on the Eastside. Assuming that takes over most of the existing Cleveland line, the Merivale Bridge is even less used, leaving room for trains from the South. So I think it’s better to for Flagstone to go via Salisbury.
Something I think a lot about is making the most of CRR’s 9-car platforms. The Gold Coast line will obviously be retrofitted to 9-car. But will the GC line need CRR all to itself? Only if demand grows about 4.5 times over from what it is today.
Right now I think we have a bit under 8 trains/hour from each of the GC and Beenleigh lines. So with CRR at 24 tph and a flying junction at Salisbury we have some capacity for Flagstone too. By building Flagstone for 9-car trains it can get more capacity (with less than 8 tph) than Beenleigh has today.
But eventually we’ll have to kick one of the three lines out of the tunnel and back onto the under-utilised Merivale Bridge. It makes sense for it to be the Beenleigh line, which has a tonne of stations on an old, curvy alignment, and hence is harder to upgrade to 9-car platforms.
At this point, sectorisation requirements mean we’ll need 4 tracks to Beenleigh. LGFCR means we’ll already have them from Kuraby to Beenleigh. Even if we chose to keep Beenleigh in the tunnel and put Flagstone over the bridge, we’d still need 4 tracks from Salisbury to Boggo Rd.
This means we’ll need to upgrade Salisbury-Kuraby to 4 tracks. Again, the alternative is to (eventually) upgrade the entire Beenleigh line for 9-car trains, which admittedly could be done later. But quadding S-K for sectorisation reasons is perfectly aligned with doing something like an express tunnel under Pinelands…
tl;dr: build Flagstone for 9-car via CRR
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Redcliffe to beenleigh
Maroochy to cooly
Nambour to beaudesert/flagstone
Ipswich to airport/doomben
Yamato to shorncliffe
Ferny to cleveland
I think that what they see pairing wise
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Well then. Time to dust off MREX. If you don’t know what that is, basically it’s an idea I have had where we would merge the Flagstone-Salisbury line with the long proposed Brisbane Subway to Hamilton via the CBD. MREX basically means Mass Rapid Express and it will be something like Sydney metro using automated trains. Will need to be grade separated and all that Jazz and it certainly won’t be cheap.
Eventually MREX will be a whole network with another line connecting Capalaba as well as a loop line connecting northern suburbs like Chermside as well as southern and eastern suburbs, but we are getting into dream territory here. If only we had the will power, we could have the whole thing up and running in the next 1-2 decades. Future expansions could also send it to the Airport as well or create even more lines
I think this is a mismatch between lines here. The Brisbane subway/actual metro route is perfect for high capacity, very high frequency trains with tightly-spaced stops, and will need full grade separation from mainline rail as well as roads. Flagstone is proposed to share & reuse an existing corridor through a largely rural area with wide stop spacings. Merging the two means you’re either:
- Spending a ton of extra money rebuilding the line to metro standards (and you have to keep the existing line open for freight and intercity traffic)
- Or building the subway as a regular train line, which limits the frequency and introduces all sorts of undesirable design limitations
Not to mention there’s all sorts of design mismatches with rolling stock. Metro trains are designed for short trips with frequent stopping and starting so they’re typically mostly standing room + no bathrooms, high acceleration but not necessarily high speed, and have smaller cars able to take tight turns/steep grades. Suburban passenger trains like we currently have are designed to have better long distance comfort (more seats, bathrooms) at the cost of capacity, higher top speed, and are larger & longer.
Both of these are good for their intended use-case and not great for the other. Standing all the way out to Flagstone on a train with no bathrooms sounds miserable, and attempting to have the subway take regular trains would heavily restrict the route and send the construction costs to the moon. Better to keep these two separate.
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It’s rural for the moment but in the next few decades that whole area is gonna rapidly develop